Jerod Santo (Sep 12 2024 at 14:46): Jerod Santo (Sep 12 2024 at 14:46):Erez Zukerman shares the story of launching the ErgoDox EZ on Indiegogo (May 2015), what it takes to create customizable ergonomic keyboards, the benefits of split keyboards and custom key layouts, repairability and longevity, community engagement, and the attention to detail required in everything they create. We talk through their keyboard lineup, our personal experience with how we mouse and keyboard…we cover it all.
:link: https://changelog.fm/608
Jerod Santo (Sep 12 2024 at 14:48):I haven't bought one yet, but if/when I do it's gonna be the Voyager https://www.zsa.io/voyager
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 12 2024 at 15:00):Same. Voyager for sure.
Tillman Jex (Sep 12 2024 at 15:27):Siiiiick. Been hoping Erez would come on a show! I've been on the voyager for about two years. Absolutely love it.
AJ Kerrigan (Sep 12 2024 at 17:33):Adam's wacom flow sounds pretty neat. One of the weird things I miss about traveling to a physical office is that I used to use a trackball left-handed in the office and right-handed at home to distribute wrist fatigue.
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 12 2024 at 21:58):Voyager is a great looking board, but man it feels like inflation has hit the MK market in the last couple of years :sob:
I think my friend has an old Ergodox, I should buy it off of him just to try out a split keyboard for an extended period....
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 13 2024 at 00:03):I was surprised at the cost. Sticker shock, for sure.
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 13 2024 at 02:17):Yeah I have admired their boards for years but have stuck to cheaper options. That said, it sounds like I'm going to be getting a used, original Ergodox EZ
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 13 2024 at 02:25):Not saying the prices aren't justified btw. They do seem to be great products, and it's not just ZSA charging more nowadays
I'm just reminiscing about the days of $300 boards being rare :big_smile:
Chris Glaubitz (Sep 13 2024 at 07:45):Team @Jerod Santo here. Loved the red thinkpad knob, remapped control to caps lock, using magic trackpad to an extend, that I'm not capable of using a mouse anymore when I'm sitting at another persons computer.
Menno (Sep 13 2024 at 10:45):I'm a long time Ergodox EZ user and am contemplating a Voyager as a travel board.
I've tried so many keebs the split staggered columns design (like the EZ and Voyager) seems to work best for me in terms of comfort and productivity. ZSA deserves a lot of credit for making high quality versions of boards like this accessible to folks who aren't hardcore keyboard nerds.
Tillman Jex (Sep 13 2024 at 12:04):Totally agree. The crazy thing is that some of the bare bones DIY projects to build keyboards are sometimes not so much cheaper, if you factor in the time of building it as a cost. And then they always seem a bit fragile, with open contacts, PCBs, etc.
So it is a bit expensive componentry wise, but I'm also a qualified remedial massage therapist on the side, and I've seen what even half a career's worth of bad ergonomics does to computer workers.
Regular keyboards rotate your shoulders in a lot, shortens the pecs, makes the neck work harder --> headaches / backaches. Wrists make weird angles from being out of line with the shoulders --> carpal tunnel syndrome.
For these sorts of things (inc. desk chair / modified desk) I invest for the long term.
And the custom layout means I have arrow keys in place of hjkl via a layer switch (no micro movements in the rotator cuff), and a numpad under my fingers via another layer switch (no raising of the wrist / over extension of the fingers).
It's a dream.
Tillman Jex (Sep 15 2024 at 19:30):Should listen to episodes before commenting, Erez mentioned all those physical ailments I mentioned in my last post already :sweat_smile:
I also got mixed up, I have the Moonlander, not the Voyager (I had a Moog Voyager for a long time, and I think I just respond by default as I'm sad to not have it anymore...). I would recommend the Moonlander over the Voyager unless you need to pack super light. The extra travel distance on the keys as well as having more keys (even if you don't need to use them all) and tenting are solid features that the Voyager doesn't have.
Brett Cannon (Sep 18 2024 at 17:28):The one thing I wish the Moonlander had was built-in tenting instead of it being a $119 accessory (I type at a 15% angle). That, and when I ordered my https://dygma.com/products/dygma-defy the tenting accessory wasn't in stock and there wasn't any schedule on when they would be available again (if ever).
I do love how ZSA leans into alt keyboard layouts, though, and make them easy to use with their keycaps w/o having to switch to dashes/blanks.
Tillman Jex (Sep 19 2024 at 07:11):It does have built in tenting, although the more you tent, the more the thumb cluster angles away (as the thumb cluster is one of the legs). But at 15degrees I would think it's still fine. The outer two keys on the thumb cluster are quite a stretch already I find. I only have sparingly used macros / shortcuts mapped to them (like screenshot / launcher).
45h15h (Sep 19 2024 at 14:47):My pandemic project was to build a version 1 corne keyboard from a kit. That started me down the rabbit hole. Today, I use a custom keyboard I designed. After using it for a few months I am now going to change the location of some of the keys on the pinky.
The total keyboard cost me around $130 including 3D printed keycaps. The best part is when I iterate to next version with modified key layout, I can reuse everything. Which means the next version will cost me about $25.
Open source software like Ergogen and KiCad along with firmware like QMK, ZMK and KMKfw have made it easy to design and build your own keyboard. I recommend this series of articles to get started.
AJ Kerrigan (Sep 25 2024 at 15:59):Anybody else check out a movemate after Erez mentioned it on this episode? My balance board thing was shot and always felt too narrow to put my feet where they wanted to be anyway. I splurged on the movemate and it's been a solid improvement :thumbs_up:
John Tocher (Sep 29 2024 at 11:18):This was a fantastic conversation. It was great to hear how into the tweaking of things EZ was, while still all for people changing things up and finding their own way, as opposed to the "one true solution" we often see in the tech space.
I'm really keen to try some of these thigns out, but I'm always changing keyboards and environments and wondering if I'd actually be able to spend enough time on any modified keyboard rig to give it enough time to see some benefit. I can control my home keyboard, and my main work one, although that's on a 4 way KVM, mostly flitting beween a Windows and Linux machine.
Does anyone else use a custom rig with regular OS switching, or moving it between home/office on a regualr basis?
45h15h (Sep 29 2024 at 13:25):One of the advantage of smaller keyboards like 30% keyboard is the portability. I carry two keyboards, a clicky (Choc Robbin) and silent (Choc Red Pro) version between work and home every time I go to office. I love the clicky version but switch to silent version when I am in meetings.
Low profile, split < 60% keyboards are pretty portable.
While I don't remap my keyboard when I switch OS, I have often wondered about switch the CMD and CTRL keys depending on when I am on macos or linux. QMK supports remapping based on the detected OS. Some people have different "default" layers for each OS that they manually switch to.
Anders Johansson (Oct 06 2024 at 05:26):After listening to this episode I went and bought their Voyager keyboard. Now I wonder why I didn’t go down this path earlier.
Great episode!
Tillman Jex (Oct 07 2024 at 19:20):nice, you definitely won't regret it !!!!!
Ron Waldon-Howe (Nov 27 2024 at 21:14):If you're on a keyboard with lighting and the QMK firmware, give the RGB_MATRIX_PIXEL_RAIN lighting mode a whirl
Reminds me of a panel of lights on the front of a mainframe in a movie
I think it's quite cute :)
James Thurley (Nov 28 2024 at 17:10):@Ron Waldon-Howe I don't suppose you have a video of it?
Ron Waldon-Howe (Nov 28 2024 at 20:06):@James Thurley f31c199f-1661-4124-b3ce-4e413d6b5bca.mp4
Ron Waldon-Howe (Nov 28 2024 at 20:09):381324e1-fffe-4f8e-a0eb-147392b1c531.jpg
Huh, here's a still just in case the video doesn't work out
James Thurley (Nov 29 2024 at 15:27):Nice. I've got the heatmap set up on mine, where it creates a heatmap based on what keys are getting the most use. But when one of the kids comes and sits on my lap I switch it to a rainbow animation to entertain them :big_smile:
Last updated: Dec 12 2024 at 16:20 UTC