Logbot (Sep 27 2024 at 22:45): Logbot (Sep 27 2024 at 22:45):Nick Nisi joins Adam and Jerod to talk about Karaoke, ARC and the business model of web browsers, this WordPress drama, and an epic bonus for Changelog ++ subscribers.
:link: https://changelog.com/friends/63
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 27 2024 at 23:13):I can't listen just yet but this is one of my favorite episode titles already
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 28 2024 at 00:29):I’m over here listening to the ++ bonus and OMG whoever is not a Changelog ++ subscriber is 100% missing out. 
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 28 2024 at 00:29):By the way, I am listening via my custom feed. Thank you very much. 
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 28 2024 at 00:34):I also agree that it’s a dope title 
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 28 2024 at 00:35):And it’s not clickbait 
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 28 2024 at 02:16):Not sure if it's because I'm on the Android client but all of Adam's emoji's come through like thisScreenshot_20240927-191555.png
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 28 2024 at 02:16):Is this the first ++ content that wasn't just one chapter?
Jerod Santo (Sep 28 2024 at 03:39):Our #define extra rounds had more than one chapter, but this might be the longest ever
Philip Durbin (Sep 28 2024 at 13:35):lol napkin math
AJ Kerrigan (Sep 28 2024 at 13:38):Fun wide-ranging episode, A+ title. I also love anytime there's a book-related tangent discussion that makes me tweak my reading queue :heart:
Andrei Jiroh Halili (Sep 29 2024 at 00:44):@Lars Ellingsen same here on desktop webapp
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Ricky Hussmann (Sep 29 2024 at 18:24):Regarding the WordPress conversation (and I did hear the disclaimer at the start of the segment that we’ve learned a lot of things since, and I’m speaking from the future, relatively);
First, as to which side the Changelog or Adam or Nick should be on, I think you can be on whatever side you want. You get to have your opinion. It may be a little stickier for the Changelog as I guess it’s a separate entity.
Given that, the thing I’m struggling with is the parallels to the rug pull / BUSL situations. In what ways is this different (and how important are the differences) than say Redis changing their license to prevent Amazon from profiting off the Redis source without contributing back monetarily?
Granted, a license change affects more users potentially, but I feel like the core of the intent in these situations feels very similar.
Additionally, and this is with some new information, is seems Matt M. is talking out both sides of his mouth about the issue; is it because WP engine is not contributing back or is it because they’re violating copyright where the rules change literally days before the blow-up?
Rarely are things binary, and I would hope that if I ran WP engine I would run it differently, but my gut sense on this is that Matt M. is in the wrong. Once again open source grinds up against the gears of the reality of capitalism; are you a purist or a realist?
Ricky Hussmann (Sep 29 2024 at 18:27):I guess I’m not here to say Matt M is wrong; he can do whatever he wants as well. I just don’t agree with it.
Alex Barnes (Sep 29 2024 at 19:55):Loved the ++ segment of this episode. Science fiction and coffee two of my favourite topics. I only started reading science fiction the past few years, and have just finished the third book in the three body problem which completely blew my mind.
@Adam Stacoviak if you like time travel books, I recently read The First Fifteen Lives Of Harry August, a great read, would highly recomend it.
Matt Johnson (Sep 30 2024 at 15:46):Enjoyed the ++ portion here, and was a bit surprised :flushed: when the end of the normal episode hit and I noticed the progress indicator on the episode hadn’t reach the half way point yet. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: Also enjoyed the books discussed… added a new one to my wish list, and re-prioritized my next read/listen.
Mason Stallmo (Oct 02 2024 at 16:59):Ricky Hussmann said:
Regarding the WordPress conversation (and I did hear the disclaimer at the start of the segment that we’ve learned a lot of things since, and I’m speaking from the future, relatively);
First, as to which side the Changelog or Adam or Nick should be on, I think you can be on whatever side you want. You get to have your opinion. It may be a little stickier for the Changelog as I guess it’s a separate entity.
Given that, the thing I’m struggling with is the parallels to the rug pull / BUSL situations. In what ways is this different (and how important are the differences) than say Redis changing their license to prevent Amazon from profiting off the Redis source without contributing back monetarily?
Granted, a license change affects more users potentially, but I feel like the core of the intent in these situations feels very similar.
Additionally, and this is with some new information, is seems Matt M. is talking out both sides of his mouth about the issue; is it because WP engine is not contributing back or is it because they’re violating copyright where the rules change literally days before the blow-up?
Rarely are things binary, and I would hope that if I ran WP engine I would run it differently, but my gut sense on this is that Matt M. is in the wrong. Once again open source grinds up against the gears of the reality of capitalism; are you a purist or a realist?
I've found myself recently leaning a lot on DHH's framing of open source. That it's an exercise in gift giving. By building open source software you're giving a gift to the wider community and that should come with all the expectations of giving a gift in the physical world (it would be quite rude to get mad at someone for giving you a "lesser" gift as reciprocation for a gift you gave them).
From a business perspective there are real trade offs to making something open source. One of those is that you're not going to be able to capture the whole market yourself. You will have competitors profiting off your work and that's just part of the deal. That said, there is a real chance that the total market would be much smaller if the project wasn't open source. As a business you're capturing part of a much larger market than would otherwise exist which is likely better than capturing the whole of a smaller market.
Last updated: Jan 06 2025 at 02:39 UTC