AJ Kerrigan (Sep 13 2024 at 12:50): AJ Kerrigan (Sep 13 2024 at 12:50):Tangent thread inspired by Changelog Interviews #608 about ergonomic keyboards: Erez spoke about how ergonomics is less about finding "the right ergonomic keyboard", and more about making a series of adjustments that make sense for you.
So what are some of your personal ergonomics wins?
My biggest wins have been around wrist strain - the combination of a Moonlander keyboard w/platform for more tent control, Kensington Expert Mouse trackball and Vivo clamp-on arm rests. Wrists are happy whether standing or sitting nowadays, and it's a beautiful thing.
Jerod Santo (Sep 13 2024 at 13:14):I shared mine on the show, but I also wrote about it back in the day, if you want to know more:
https://jerodsanto.net/2015/02/i-fought-the-rsi-and-the-rsi-almost-won/
AJ Kerrigan (Sep 13 2024 at 13:23):Oh nice, don't think I had seen that before! Solid write-up :thumbs_up: . I felt kind of bad to be excited about a ZSA episode for the keyboard talk and then end up more interested in the general ergo side discussions. But hey, we have to take care of these limbs/joints/tendons :sunglasses: .
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 13 2024 at 14:37):@AJ Kerrigan do you have a picture of what your setup looks like? I'd love to see it
AJ Kerrigan (Sep 13 2024 at 15:06):The truth is it looks like a hot mess because I'm much better about handling wrist fatigue than clutter :grimacing: . But hopefully this gives an idea of the keyboard/arm rest/trackball combo at least.
image.png
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Lars Ellingsen (Sep 13 2024 at 15:24):That's very helpful, tysm! I've also previously used the MS ergo keyboards and kind of miss my hands sloping down from wrist to fingers, but that appears to be not as common on the ergo boards, so I am guessing it's not as helpful as I thought it was :big_smile:
Cool idea with those wrist rests coming out from the desk :eyes:
AJ Kerrigan (Sep 13 2024 at 15:28):Heh.I'm glad to find apparently the one other person who feels that way! I sort of reluctantly waded into the mechanical keyboard world because my old MS ergo keyboards all finally died, and I didn't like the newer ones. During the Moonlander onboarding period I kept guiltily thinking "this is nerdy cool and all, but I can find other hobbies - I wish my MS keyboard still worked" :grimacing:
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 13 2024 at 17:01):Hahaha I've been in the MK world for over a decade now, which is scary when I think about it. But I've been using a HHKB layout for something like 6-7 years (totally agree with Jerod on CTRL being in the normal Caps Lock position) and have very little wrist/hand pain, so I haven't gone into the ergo world. The fact that I don't need to move my hands too much while typing seems to help a ton
James Thurley (Sep 14 2024 at 05:59):Lars Ellingsen said:
totally agree with Jerod on CTRL being in the normal Caps Lock position
Are you saying here that Caps Lock should be where Ctrl is, or are you really saying Ctrl should be where Caps Lock is? I just ask because usually I see people say that Caps Lock is fairly useless but in a convenient position, so they replace it with something like Layer Toggle (or I guess Ctrl).
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 14 2024 at 07:33):Caps lock is useless, replace it with ctrl
Ed Howard (Sep 14 2024 at 13:47):Ah, flashbacks to some old Sun keyboards that did it right.
https://tikatetu.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/suntype4overview-1536x640.jpg
Thomas Eckert (Sep 14 2024 at 15:08):@Lars Ellingsen, not to my wife. She is the only person I know who does not use the SHIFT key. She toggles on CAPS LOCK for one character and toggles it off. She's a writer. She types constantly and is very fast, but I cannot explain this behavior.
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 14 2024 at 15:25):Ed Howard said:
Ah, flashbacks to some old Sun keyboards that did it right.
HHKB layout has it by default too!
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 14 2024 at 15:27):Thomas Eckert said:
not to my wife. She is the only person I know who does not use the SHIFT key. She toggles on CAPS LOCK for one character and toggles it off. She's a writer. She types constantly and is very fast, but I cannot explain this behavior.
Oh.... Oh no
Chris Woods (Sep 14 2024 at 20:18):Ed Howard said:
Ah, flashbacks to some old Sun keyboards that did it right.
https://tikatetu.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/suntype4overview-1536x640.jpg
The Sun keyboard was in my experience too dull and squishy. It also came with this absolute dud of a mouse which only worked with that specific mousepad and the pad had to be oriented properly
Chris Woods (Sep 14 2024 at 20:19):IMO the IBM Model M was peak keyboard
Chris Woods (Sep 14 2024 at 20:30):I have a completely unsubstantiated hypothesis that the fact that I never learned how to type is a major factor in why I haven't developed anything close to RSI in over 40 years of using computer keyboards actively for many hours daily. I have a completely unorthodox typing style.
Ed Howard (Sep 15 2024 at 10:52):That mouse was awful. The crazier bit, if I recall correctly, was that unplugging the keyboard while the workstation was running would cause it to freeze. That would have been on... I think a Sparcstation 4, and Solaris 2.5.
Pontus Ullgren (Sep 15 2024 at 20:30):To the people that replaces caps lock with ctrl: How do you scream on the intertubes ?
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 15 2024 at 20:55):I just don't? :joy:
But the real answer is that I have fn+normal caps key mapped to capslock still
Maroš Kučera (Sep 16 2024 at 03:19):I hold shift. Just as with yelling on the square, it’s an ongoing effort :big_smile::innocent:
James Thurley (Sep 16 2024 at 14:52):Pressing caps lock before shouting seems extremely intentional.. like calmly saying "and now I am going to shout at you". Holding shift implies you didn't think it through, like a random outburst.
caalar (Sep 16 2024 at 17:22):How is this different from the slack? I am confused.
Matthew Sanabria (Sep 16 2024 at 17:28):caalar said:
How is this different from the slack? I am confused.
I think your question holds the answer. This is different than Slack. Many people don't like the ergonomics of Slack and the multi-account architecture. Also, Slack is not friendly to free-tier users and/or communities. There's no "plan" for them. Changelog discusses their motivation to spin up Zulip a bit in the following episodes.
caalar (Sep 16 2024 at 17:32):I agree. I never liked slack hard to navigate weird app
Matthew Sanabria (Sep 16 2024 at 17:34):I loved my Preonic keyboard. I switched from a standard keyboard to the Preonic and loved the linear layout and small form factor. However I have wide shoulders so I began to notice discomfort in my shoulders due to how close my hands and arms were when using the Preonic. I then switched to the Moonlander as my first split keyboard and it's been pretty good overall. It can be adjusted to my liking and the split nature is perfect for my shoulders and posture. No more discomfort.
I do wish the Moonlander had:
Sam Edwardes (Sep 23 2024 at 16:59):I just learned about the "Master Forge". Right now I use the ZSA Voyager and I am a huge fan. I would be interested in trying this though. The learning curve must be steep. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charachorder/the-master-forge-a-keyboard-built-for-you
Konrad (Sep 25 2024 at 21:29):Oh wow, I never saw that concept of typing before :sweat_smile:
I think that would be too much to handle for me, I am currently thinking about replacing my old logitech keyboard. I have no pain so far, but I want it to keep it that way...
The ZSA gear looks really tempting, but it is really expensive to get in Germany... customs will add around 80€ of costs... so, depending on the current currency conversion rates, I am looking at about 408€ in total... without ever having a mechanical keyboard before, and I'm not sure how well I would handle the transition. There is rarely any second-hand market either...
Does anyone have good alternatives for German citizens? I am willing to spend a bit more, but I think somewhere around 300€ would be my limit I would be comfortable to spend.
James Thurley (Sep 26 2024 at 09:33):That Master Forge keyboard is nuts.
Also the video on that page about the slightly grandiosely named "text entanglement" tells me the guy never used ICQ back in the 90s!
Bjørn Gustav Baklid (Sep 26 2024 at 09:43):@Konrad Have a look at the offerings from FalbaTech.click
Konrad (Sep 26 2024 at 10:23):Thanks :blush:
René (Sep 26 2024 at 11:31):i've got a FalbaTech Redox. It is fine, they offer many customization options.
René (Sep 26 2024 at 11:48):I also bought a lily58 on reddit r/MechanicalKeyboards there are a eu people too.
Bjørn Gustav Baklid (Sep 26 2024 at 16:17):There is also this list of vendors if you don’t find anything from falbatech.
https://kbd.news/vendors/Europe/keyboard
Raúl (Sep 26 2024 at 17:35):I've been using a Glove80 (https://www.moergo.com/) for about a year and I absolutely love it.
After some research, I decided I wanted a split and tented keyboard, with a concave key-well. I ordered a Scylla DIY kit from Bastard Keyboards (https://bastardkb.com/) but for several reasons it just sat in its box and I never put it together.
Not long after I found the Glove80, and it seemed to check all the boxes for me, so I decided to give it a try. I couldn't be happier.
I was starting to feel some pain in my wrists and getting symptoms of possible initial carpal tunnel inflammation (tingly sensation on my fingers). Those are now gone and my typing posture is so much more comfortable!
But the keyboard was just one of the ergonomics wins. I also got a standing desk and a treadmill underneath it, I raised the height of the computer screens to be more aligned with the height of my eyes, and decided on a new chair to buy (haven't bought it yet). All of this has made it much more bearable to work sitting at a desk.
Bjørn Gustav Baklid (Sep 26 2024 at 18:02):The Glove80 looks sweet! :)
I have been thinking about building a Dactyl Manuform for å while, but it is tempting to just get the finished Glove 80 :thinking:
@Raúl have you thought about trackballs as well on your ergo journey?
Switching to a ball made a lot of difference for me. With the Kensington Expert I can even switch sides, so of my right hand hurts one day I just use my left hand instead :big_smile:
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 26 2024 at 18:04):That does look sweet... I wish there was a wired option though :thinking: I like the concave design
Raúl (Sep 26 2024 at 18:06):Lars Ellingsen said:
That does look sweet... I wish there was a wired option though :thinking: I like the concave design
@Lars Ellingsen The Glove80 works both wired and wireless. :smile:
Raúl (Sep 26 2024 at 18:11):Bjørn Gustav Baklid said:
The Glove80 looks sweet! :)
I have been thinking about building a Dactyl Manuform for å while, but it is tempting to just get the finished Glove 80 :thinking:Raúl have you thought about trackballs as well on your ergo journey?
Switching to a ball made a lot of difference for me. With the Kensington Expert I can even switch sides, so of my right hand hurts one day I just use my left hand instead :big_smile:
@Bjørn Gustav Baklid I did indeed, and I would love to have a trackball in one of the thumbclusters, but all the models I saw with a trackball at the time lacked something else that I wanted more. Namely, they were either flat, without a key-well, and/or did not have enough keys.
Bjørn Gustav Baklid (Sep 26 2024 at 18:16):The trackballs integrated in keyboards I have come across has not really appealed to me. I prefer a separate trackball which I can independently replace if I feel like it. I currently have 5 different trackballs :face_with_peeking_eye:
Raúl (Sep 26 2024 at 18:27):Some of the models I saw had modular thumbclusters, which you could replace.
Raúl (Sep 26 2024 at 18:27):5 trackballs sounds like a lot though :sweat_smile:
Bjørn Gustav Baklid (Sep 26 2024 at 20:14):Raúl said:
5 trackballs sounds like a lot though :sweat_smile:
Some see more use than others. I got them to try different models and for different needs.
The ones I use the most are the Kensington Expert (work desk), the Gameball (home desk), and the Elecom Deft Pro (backpack) :ok:
AJ Kerrigan (Sep 26 2024 at 20:52):Ooh the gameball and elecom deft pro both look neat :thumbs_up: . I've bounced off pretty much any other trackball I've tried except the expert mouse. i have a kensington orbit for backpack use, but the elecom deft pro seems like a sweet alternative. thanks for sharing those
Raúl (Sep 26 2024 at 20:53):I'm going to take a look at those. I've been meaning to try a trackball for some time. Thanks for the suggestions :+1:
Raúl (Sep 26 2024 at 20:57):Doesn't a trackball force you to move your fingers more, though? With a traditional mouse, you only move your wrist. I suppose they cater to different needs: for people who have carpal tunnel issues, a regular mouse might be a better choice, whereas for someone who suffers from wrist/elbow/shoulder pain the trackball is more appropriate because it limits the motion of those joints. Does that make sense?
Raúl (Sep 26 2024 at 21:08):Oh, and I forgot to mention that I also have a Logitech mx vertical mouse, which also eliminated the strain on my mouse hand wrist. Changing the angle my forearms rest on the table was probably my biggest win in terms of ergonomics.
René (Sep 27 2024 at 11:46):Raúl said:
Doesn't a trackball force you to move your fingers more, though? With a traditional mouse, you only move your wrist. I suppose they cater to different needs: for people who have carpal tunnel issues, a regular mouse might be a better choice, whereas for someone who suffers from wrist/elbow/shoulder pain the trackball is more appropriate because it limits the motion of those joints. Does that make sense?
i've switched to an elecom huge trackball, it's a finger-roller trackball, it works great for me.
On top i've added an AppleMagicTrackpad which I can place between my keyboard, and swap between hands using it.
image.png
René (Sep 27 2024 at 11:47):Since I am a lefty, which uses a mouse with the right-hand, I could add a wacom to the left side. :D
little cluttery, but would be nice to have a drawing device sometimes.
Tillman Jex (Oct 03 2024 at 15:10):Can highly recommend taking time to get a good desk chair for the mouse problem too. I have the Steelcase Gesture, which has quite a bit of range in all directions for the arm rests. I can comfortably sit my forearms on the arm rests, which keeps them at the right level for the Moonlander.
But when I do need to move to the mouse, I can pivot my forearm, which doesn't use the traps / shoulder at all. Reduces strain a lot.
Can also highly recommend skhd and yabai to cut down a lot of mousing (Mac specific). And firefox + tridactyl, and neovim of course. I count those as (time) investments in ergonomics.
Konrad (Oct 03 2024 at 15:47):I am still tempted to try a zsa board, even if they are pricy to order from Germany... I am leaning towards the voyager, especially for low profile keys, but the moonlander has palm wrists included and looks quite nice as well...
By the way, did anyone hear any rumors about a new ZSA board? I did not hear anything like that so far, but the voyager is out for a while already, I think, so I am just wondering if they have something new going on? :thinking:
Tillman Jex (Oct 03 2024 at 16:55):@Konrad I doubt they will be releasing another board too soon. They only recently announced the Voyager (with regards to how long ago they released the Moonlander).
If you do go the Moonlander route, you could order one without keyswitches and buy my cherry silent reds from my Moonlander if you like :) I replaced them with some switches I got when in Japan. I live in Berlin too, so shipping is easy or local pickup if you're in Berlin :+1:
Konrad (Oct 03 2024 at 17:47):Just found these links here: https://ergodox-ez.com/comparison
Tge ergodox was released December 2015, Moonlander 4,5 years later in June 2020, the voyager I think around mid 2023, at least https://www.techspot.com/news/100051-zsa-voyager-low-profile-split-ergonomic-keyboard-maximum.html was written in September of that year.
Probably you're right. It might take a few more years before a new model is released.
Thanks for your offer, I am living in Hannover, but that would still be close by in comparison :laughing: I'll think about it, at the moment the voyager is still my favorite but let's see.
As you were in the same shoes, how was the delivery process for you? Just order and wait for further instructions? I guess you would need to pay the customs somehow. I never did that explicitly before. Did you need to pick it up from the authorities, or was that more or less painless except for paying? :smiley:
onjen (Oct 03 2024 at 21:16):You'll receive a mail by DHL requesting you to grant DHL a "Verzollungsvollmacht". Afterwards you just pay online via credit card or PayPal to DHL.
Konrad (Oct 03 2024 at 21:18):Ah, cool, that's easier than I thought :sweat_smile:
Thanks
Tillman Jex (Oct 05 2024 at 06:49):Yep, however! I'm pretty sure it's still the case that the DHL delivery person _also_ needs €6 for the DHL processing fee. This is additional to the actual import tax (which is paid online)... And they only take it in cash! Otherwise the parcel goes back to a major post shop... Thought this was a scam the first time it happened to me.
Keep an eye on kleinanzeigen too. I've seen Moonlanders pop up on occasion. Maybe voyagers will start to soon as well.
onjen (Oct 05 2024 at 07:18):Got my Moonlander last week, but the DHL delivery person didn't ask for any money on the actual delivery. I paid the import fee online upfront.
Konrad (Oct 05 2024 at 07:49):Thanks, yeah, we are quite spoiled with the Amazon delivery process... but I also fully understand that companies avoid selling on Amazon, especially if they are selling more niche products.
I would really like to have some stores to try it before buying, or maybe an option to rent and buy eventually, but I guess ergo custom boards are an expensive hobby, it is what it is :sweat_smile:
When I take into consideration what it takes to build a board with that level of functions ... probably 365$ is a fair price. Including customs, the end price will end up to around 450€ if I am not mistaken...
Still, if I build my own, it might end up in that price range as well, and the quality might not be that great in comparison. It might pay off if you plan to keep building boards, but I am not seeing me doing that in the near future:laughing:
Johannes (Oct 05 2024 at 16:03):@Konrad I just ordered a keyboard from keebart.com. The shop seems to be in Germany. I also had the Voyager in mind but with tolls it is too expensive for me. I took the Sofle for ~ 300€.
Konrad (Oct 05 2024 at 16:53):Also an interesting choice. Thanks for sharing.
There is even a knop that might be cool for controlling audio.
Konrad (Oct 12 2024 at 05:02):I ordered a voyager 2 days ago, thought about for that long that I just want to give it a try :sweat_smile:
Konrad (Oct 19 2024 at 16:46):It arrived on Friday, I did not have super much time to play with it, but my first impression is really good. Nice build quality, and everything is customizable AND works with Fedora. With current currency conversion and customs on top, I paid 412.14€. It's not cheap, but if it is really that good, it might still be worth the price. Shipping already costs around 90$, I think, so they don't really get that much for their work... customs were 77,22€ in my case.
James McNally (Oct 19 2024 at 16:52):I'm feeling so tempted but it is a lot! Are there any recommended stepping stones for someone who has never tried a split keyboard?
Konrad (Oct 19 2024 at 16:55):I used a Logitech ERGO K860 which felt quite good and at least had ergonomic features and kind of split design on a single board.
I got it for about 80€ from Amazon
https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B07W6JPVP3
I just used it for 2 weeks or so before ordering the voyager :see_no_evil:
Raúl (Oct 20 2024 at 09:25):James McNally said:
I'm feeling so tempted but it is a lot! Are there any recommended stepping stones for someone who has never tried a split keyboard?
I tried the Logitech K860 for a few days a couple years ago and it is really good. Unfortunately I couldn't get one with a Portuguese layout, so now I didn't buy one for my girlfriend. The Microsoft Sculpt is also quite nice, though I was only able to get it as a kit with a mouse that isn't bad but is light-years away from the Logitech vertical mouse. Also, it forces you to use both the mouse and the keyboard, the keyboard alone doesn't work. And it's not Bluetooth, you have to use the proprietary MS dongle that comes with it, meaning that if you lose it, you toss everything out the window. Both units use replaceable batteries, which is a very positive aspect.
Raúl (Oct 20 2024 at 09:30):A couple cheaper (but still in the €300 range) alternatives to the ZSA keyboards are the Glove80 and the Dygma. They're both very good. I use a Glove80 and absolutely love it, it's super comfortable, customisable, can be used wired or wirelessly via bluetooth, and it's just great. The Dygma is also very nice but doesn't have a concave key well, which was the decisimg factor for me, making it less ergonomic. On the flip side, because it's flat, it's a little easier to carry. The Dygma also doesn't have both wired and wireless in the same unit, if I recall correctly. You have to pick one or the other.
Konrad (Oct 20 2024 at 10:06):Yeah, logitech is not really flexible. You can't tweak much, and changing key caps is probably not possible either, as it is not a mechanical keyboard.
Personally, I also thought it was a bit too wide... the mouse is quite far away, but due to the split arrangement, it requires that space, and they still kept the num pad.
I wished they would not have chosen to make a 100% keyboard, less would feel more decent on the desk, in my opinion.
Raúl (Oct 20 2024 at 10:34):It's definitely not the same as the other options mentioned here. It's still better than a traditional keyboard, though.
James McNally (Oct 20 2024 at 11:41):I'm pretty convinced that the thumb pads would be super useful, just going to have to bite the bullet at some point!
Konrad (Oct 20 2024 at 11:59):I am not against having a num pad in general, on the voyager I need to press a layer switch which will just light up the keys used for the numbers. I can use the num pad that way without requiring permanent keys and space for it.
James McNally (Oct 20 2024 at 17:40):I'm definitely falling down the rabbit hole!
Raúl (Oct 20 2024 at 19:23):And it's quite a deep one :sweat_smile:
Konrad (Oct 20 2024 at 20:40):Absolutely... I basically just started to read more about it after the ZSA episode on the changelog, but once you get started, it is hard to stop :smiley:
At least programmable layouts are really great if you are programming and use language layouts that don't map special characters to reachable positions.
I used german layouts so far, and when I am programming, I need to stretch quite a bit for all these types of brackets. Now, they are all on the home row or one line up or down on my second layer.
I still figure out some characters as I go, but I could also get rid of unused keys like caps lock... it was just a key I hit by accident on a usual board, which was never useful to me. Finally, it's time to say goodbye to it :sweat_smile:
James McNally (Oct 22 2024 at 05:08):I have a few projects queued up for the budget so thinking I might start with a. Keychron programmable board. Not ergonomic but can start experimenting with layers etc for a much lower price
Raúl (Oct 22 2024 at 09:03):If you just want a taste of programmable and layers, there's an open source software that allows you to do that with any keyboard. I can't recall the name but I'll try to find it.
Raúl (Oct 22 2024 at 09:05):I think it's this one: https://github.com/jtroo/kanata
Or at least the description fits :sweat_smile:
AJ Kerrigan (Oct 22 2024 at 13:26):Interesting, never heard of that project! The creator thought kmonad was sweet but Haskell was impenetrable, so wrote a Rust version? :clap:
Nice touch in the donations section of the readme:
"The author (jtroo) will not accept monetary donations for work on kanata. Please instead donate your time and/or money to charity."
Raúl (Oct 22 2024 at 13:33):Ah, no, I think the one I had seen before was kmonad. But I'm not sure, it's been a while and I only tried the software for a few minutes.
Cool detail about the donations, I didn't notice that.
Konrad (Oct 23 2024 at 20:50):James McNally said:
I have a few projects queued up for the budget so thinking I might start with a. Keychron programmable board. Not ergonomic but can start experimenting with layers etc for a much lower price
I understand that, I thought so as well. But having a split design makes really a difference, I just tried switching back after using the voyager since last Friday evening exclusively, and it felt that much worse :sweat_smile:
In my case, I bought the Logitech ERGO, which is basically new now, and I won't use it any more, maybe my wife will pick it up :man_shrugging:. Just saying that I spent 80 bugs that I could have invested into my dream keyboard right away :see_no_evil:
Lars Ellingsen (Oct 28 2024 at 15:32):Since the ZSA episode I've been thinking of getting a Voyager... finally bit the bullet yesterday and ordered one. Now we wait.
Going to switch from a custom, more standard mechanical keyboard (HHKB layout, QWERTY layout) to tripod mount, split keyboard under my desk, and planning on trying Colemak too.... RIP my words per second
Konrad (Oct 28 2024 at 17:43):That'll be an endeavor :smiley:
The transition worked quite good for me, but I sticked to a qwertz default layout and tweaked it from there. New angle + new layout + orthogonal + split keyboard all at once is probably a challenge :sweat_smile:
Lars Ellingsen (Oct 28 2024 at 19:54):Yeah for sure. I just remapped another board to Colemak and am going to learn on that while I wait for it to arrive... Thankfully I have adapted pretty well in the past to other layouts
Konrad (Oct 28 2024 at 21:05):Ah, ok, that might help, I think changing one thing at a time is probably the option to stay productive while doing the transition. Or... you accept the fact that you need to re-learn everything and learn touch typing from scratch again :sweat_smile:
I wasn't that bold and picked the first approach.
What helped me was to open their app keymapp on my laptop screen while working on my main screen. The usual characters were not that hard to memorize, and you could also put proper keycaps on those. But for special characters, I am not fully certain all the time.
I ensured that I could type my password without any help, and afterward, I could rely on their app to help me find keys until I had them fully memorized.
The heat map function is also interesting to optimize your layout for your use case. If too many hits happen to far away from your home row, consider swapping them.
AJ Kerrigan (Oct 28 2024 at 21:12):One little thing... if you're doing a lot of iterations on your layout, it's super handy to have a binding for the keyboard reset key so you can flash without having to hit the little paperclip reset button. Dunno about everyone else, but I was tweaking like crazy for the first few weeks at least.
Konrad (Oct 28 2024 at 21:22):On the voyager you don't need a paperclip, there is a little button on the left top half. I deleted the reset mapping for that reason, as I can easily hit hardware reset on that model :smile:
AJ Kerrigan (Oct 28 2024 at 21:34):Oh nice! TIL
Ron Waldon-Howe (Oct 28 2024 at 22:32):I've had a Moonlander for a while, but I think I'd grab a Voyager otherwise
I've unfortunately let my practice lapse a little, ideally I'd be doing some reps on https://typing.io/ and https://speedtyper.dev/ a few times a week
Ron Waldon-Howe (Nov 01 2024 at 23:00):I have my Moonlander on the Platform (ZSA's official stand for it, heavy, rubber feet) but it does still slide around just a little during use
I finally got sick of this and fastened the Platform to my desk
Now everything is nice and centred and won't drift into assymetry over time
Adam Bedenbaugh (Nov 04 2024 at 03:37):I was also convinced to get a ZSA Voyager from the Erez Zukermak podcast. I started having pain in my pinkies from using shift, control, and enter. I knew something needed to change and the show was a nice point in the right direction. The first 2 weeks I spent getting use to the keyboard. After viewing the keyboard heatmap I decided to try switching to Colemak. With QWERTY, I spent a lot of time not on the home row. I'm still learning the new layout, but my hand pain has gone away.
I checked out Keebio Iris CE this week. Their keyboard also felt really nice. They use choco switches (same as Voyager), but the keycaps are slightly smaller and, therefore closer together.
Lars Ellingsen (Nov 05 2024 at 01:22):PXL_20241105_010158490.PORTRAIT.jpg
It arrived! Time to kill my WPM
AJ Kerrigan (Nov 05 2024 at 02:04):It _is_ a very pretty device :star:
Konrad (Nov 05 2024 at 05:24):You even went with the blank key caps :happy:
Enjoy the new board. You'll have a few interesting days ahead of you (and I guess probably ~30 layout revisions in the next two weeks) :laughing:
Adam Bedenbaugh (Nov 05 2024 at 14:59):That's pretty close. I got to 42 revisions.
ZSA also just released this website for typing that doesn't need a ZSA keyboard. https://typ.ing/ It's a little more basic than https://configure.zsa.io/train but I like I can hit backspace and fix my errors.
Lars Ellingsen (Nov 05 2024 at 17:01):Yeah I'm digging that site. It's not filled with ads like most of the others
Konrad (Nov 05 2024 at 18:02):It's quite refreshing to see that there are actually companies that seem to survive without pressing out every penny they could get with targeted apps or products that die after 2 years and 1 day :grinning:
I am not sure how well they are doing, but I like the customer experience.
Last updated: Dec 12 2024 at 15:17 UTC