Adam Stacoviak (Aug 29 2024 at 05:21): Adam Stacoviak (Aug 29 2024 at 05:21):Let's see if this is something that might be able to work for our community. I'm on the fence. Change is hard.
Jerod Santo (Aug 29 2024 at 13:34):Downloaded the macOS app and it feels pretty Slack-y, overall. It's missing some OS integrations, such as password autocomplete from my keychain. Had to copy/paste...
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 05 2024 at 16:05):Same. I had to copy/paste as well from 1p.
Jerod Santo (Sep 05 2024 at 16:15):The UI felt fast last week when I used it, but today it's feeling sluggish. Not sure which of those two experiences is normal...
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 05 2024 at 19:32):UI is snappy for me today.
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 05 2024 at 19:33):That channel and topic set for ATO seems pretty cool.
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 05 2024 at 19:34):CleanShot-2024-09-05-at-14.33.202x.png
I can see you typing too.
Jerod Santo (Sep 05 2024 at 19:43):One thing to figure out is where we'd post our new episode notifications:
I like option 2, but I fear there will be less discussion on new episodes if they aren't posted to general...
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 05 2024 at 19:43):Both?
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 05 2024 at 19:44):My issue with topics is that it's a lot of digging to find the conversations. Recent Conversations is helpful, but otherwise things seem to get buried.
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 05 2024 at 19:45):This feels a little like realtime email.
Jerod Santo (Sep 05 2024 at 19:45):Yeah hard to know how well the search works until we have a decent amount of content in here
Jerod Santo (Sep 05 2024 at 19:46):I do like how I set up the new #games channel to have a topic per game, which is kinda how we're threading in Slack's wordle channel right now anyhow
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 05 2024 at 20:18):Keyboard shortcuts are nice and you can press "t" to go to recent conversations and the jkl or arrow around and press enter to enter the topic.
Notification Bot (Sep 05 2024 at 20:18):A message was moved here from #ato-2024 > host a panel, y/n? by Adam Stacoviak.
AJ Kerrigan (Sep 06 2024 at 14:26):The Combined Feed (a) also seems like a decent way to just see "what happened lately" without having to dig into a bunch of topics individually. I guess like Jerod said it's hard to know what works well until there's more going on. I would _guess_ Recent Conversations trumps Combined Feed as the place gets hopping or you've been away a while :thinking:
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 06 2024 at 15:10):Press "t" and you're there.
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 06 2024 at 16:11):Going back to Slack and not being able to keyboard shortcut my way around is feeling dated already. Or, I never knew of or learned the keyboard commands over there.
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 06 2024 at 16:33):In a topic you can press "r" to reply. Up arrow to navigate the messages. Left arrow to edit your latest message. So cool.
Jerod Santo (Sep 06 2024 at 16:36):Yes the nerds built this :100:
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 06 2024 at 16:37):Keyboard nav is hard selling me
Omri Gabay (Sep 06 2024 at 16:46):This is what people remember IRC being like?
Jerod Santo (Sep 06 2024 at 16:47):The main thing I remember about IRC was when there would be a netsplit and hundreds of people would drop offline and I was so confused and in awe and scared hoping my internet connection could "hold on" while I downloaded this file! :laughter_tears:
Nabeel S (Sep 06 2024 at 17:57):Honestly, I'd rather use a slightly less nice chat client if it's built be nerds vs. giant corps. There's something satisfying about it that's hard to explain.
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 06 2024 at 17:59):I use cmd + k to navigate around in Slack which works pretty well
Agree on nerds vs giant corps though!
Matthew Sanabria (Sep 06 2024 at 20:21):I'd do a channel per show and with a topic per released episode. You can post the link to the topic in a general channel.
I agree that the UI of Zulip feels dated but the keyboard navigation is far better than Slack.
Recent conversations and Combined feed are great as well. Really lets you jump into what you missed and what's happening now.
Daniel Buckmaster (Sep 06 2024 at 21:41):I'd suggest a topic per episode in a general channel? But as Matthew said episodes could be cross-posted. I suggest this as it's closest to the current Slack flow where everything is posted in the main channel, but topic-per-episode encourages discussing that episode in its own "thread"
If you check out the Zulip main chat, they actually posted about the Changelog episode in an "announcements" channel, but with a link to say "discuss the episode in a topic over here in the general channel".
Nabeel S (Sep 06 2024 at 22:01):Also might I suggest: Don't worry about migrating old chat history. If we decide to move here permanently, just archive the Slack channels and people can copy/link to things if the need arises. Anything on Slack is going away after 90 days anyways, so a migration seems like overkill to me.
Jerod Santo (Sep 07 2024 at 12:43):Yeah lots to ponder on how to organize. I'll probably do things manually for a bit and just see what feels good and then eventually automate on that.
Jerod Santo (Sep 07 2024 at 12:46):First attempt at an episode announcement topic: https://changelog.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/453512-general/topic/Friends.2060.3A.20Starbucks.20DVD.20peddlers/near/468404124
Philip Durbin (Sep 07 2024 at 13:55):One of the great things about Zulip is that you can easily move messages from one topic to another. So we can always reorganize in the future if need be.
Matt Johnson (Sep 07 2024 at 15:53):The whole signup/onboarding process was very easy with Zulip, which has not been my experience with other community chat solutions (Discourse). I was able to interact with the web UI easily and transition to the desktop and mobile app quickly and got everything setup.
I like how I can add some other Zulip organization chats to the app without logging in or signing up, for instance I can add (chat.zulip.org) and browse the public conversations without the friction for signing up or logging in.
The whole blending of public and private/member chat is fascinating and I wonder how easily it would be to integrate a published episode as a topic and be able to have the discussion of the episode easily accessible and viewable from the website where people find other details (show notes, transcript, sponsors, links, more info about guests and hosts) about an epsidoe. Having something to better integrate engagement with an episode without much friction from the community would be interesting.
CleanShot-2024-09-07-at-10.46.122x.png
Matt Johnson (Sep 07 2024 at 16:09):Matt Johnson said:
Having something to better integrate engagement with an episode without much friction from the community would be interesting.
CleanShot-2024-09-07-at-10.46.122x.png
So with using the desktop app I was able to take a quick screenshot, mark it up, then just copy and paste it into the chat... that's a workflow I do a lot of with Slack and Discord on a frequent basis and is nice to see that just works here. I also noticed that when adding the link in and now experimenting with quoting a portion of my last post it appears to be Markdown format, which is a total hook for me.
Ha... and by quoting the image from the previous conversation it didn't just display it automatically like the original message did, it just has the link to the image, nice touch.
Matt Johnson (Sep 07 2024 at 16:14):Did you see that you can view read receipts on messages... that's wild.
CleanShot-2024-09-07-at-11.13.312x.png
Chris Woods (Sep 07 2024 at 20:20):Omri Gabay said:
This is what people remember IRC being like?
Not really, no. I still use IRC. My oldest closest circle of friends is in a private IRC channel, plus a bunch of linux and programming language channels. Stepping outside of my bias, IRC is a terrible experience compared to any modern chat app.
Chris Woods (Sep 07 2024 at 20:20):Jerod Santo said:
One thing to figure out is where we'd post our new episode notifications:
- In the general channel all under a single topic?
- In podcast-specific channels with a new topic for each episode?
- Somewhere else entirely?
I like option 2, but I fear there will be less discussion on new episodes if they aren't posted to general...
I like option 2.
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 08 2024 at 01:27):I also like option 2.
The last time I used IRC it was for finding other Counterstrike teams to scrimmage against :sweat_smile:
Matthew Sanabria (Sep 08 2024 at 02:14):I stepped away for a day and came back here and it was really easy to digest what I've missed and select the conversations that I wanted to continue discussing. This is actually pretty fun overall. I'll do my part to keep it going.
Ed Howard (Sep 08 2024 at 18:31):Jerod Santo said:
Yes the nerds built this :100:
That should be a certification. When in doubt, choose "Nerdbuilt Certified".
Chris Glaubitz (Sep 09 2024 at 09:17):Jerod Santo said:
Yeah lots to ponder on how to organize. I'll probably do things manually for a bit and just see what feels good and then eventually automate on that.
Using zulip in one project for about 2 years and :love: it. How well it works comes down to orga and automation. Happy to learn how it works for a non-dev-project :)
Jerod Santo (Sep 09 2024 at 13:38):Lars Ellingsen said:
I also like option 2.
Sounds like people are liking option 2. I'm down with trying that. Next question becomes: Do we split The Changelog channels into 3? (News, Interviews, Friends) or keep them together as one pod? I'm leaning toward keeping them together, but if we do want to programmatically attach channels to episodes for public-facing discussions, it might be easier to have a separate channel for each...
Dan Cardin (Sep 09 2024 at 14:24):any idea if it's possible to get the slack-like setting of only showing channels with unread messages?
kinda seems like the topic list will just grow unboundedly and it'd be hard to keep track of conversations in each one.
then again maybe i dont understand zulip
James Thurley (Sep 09 2024 at 14:25):Do we split The Changelog channels into 3? (News, Interviews, Friends) or keep them together as one pod?
I would have expected them to be separate, but then I subscribe to their individual feeds.
Maroš Kučera (Sep 09 2024 at 14:28):Dan Cardin said:
any idea if it's possible to get the slack-like setting of only showing channels with unread messages?
kinda seems like the topic list will just grow unboundedly and it'd be hard to keep track of conversations in each one.
then again maybe i dont understand zulip
I think Inbox is the thing you're looking for. That shows new topics in channels you follow, grouped by the channel, but shows only those with unread messages. Like a few others, I find it much easier to follow catch up on the convo this way than the Slack way.
Dan Cardin (Sep 09 2024 at 16:05):idk if it's just a UI bug or not, but i tried marking your message as unread to test that out, and it shows a 1 next to inbox, but then doesn't actually show the message, so i can't determine if what you're saying would be nice or not yet :D
Erik Lundevall-Zara (Sep 09 2024 at 18:02):I marked a few messages as unread, and it does show these channels and topics as unread (with message count) in the inbox.
Erik Lundevall-Zara (Sep 09 2024 at 18:06):Jerod Santo said:
Do we split The Changelog channels into 3? (News, Interviews, Friends) or keep them together as one pod? I'm leaning toward keeping them together, but if we do want to programmatically attach channels to episodes for public-facing discussions, it might be easier to have a separate channel for each...
It is probably easier to have them separated, and more consistent. I would vote for what is easier to do right now, since it could potentially end up with some other changes anyway after using it for a while. No need for premature optimization :-)
Maroš Kučera (Sep 09 2024 at 18:17):Hm, that's weird, it works for me in the desktop app :open_mouth:
Chris Woods (Sep 09 2024 at 19:35):Dan Cardin said:
any idea if it's possible to get the slack-like setting of only showing channels with unread messages?
kinda seems like the topic list will just grow unboundedly and it'd be hard to keep track of conversations in each one.
then again maybe i dont understand zulip
I have the option to filter "Recent conversations" with a checkbox for "unread" that seems to do what you're looking for
Dan Cardin (Sep 09 2024 at 20:59):yea i guess i had to pick "standard view" instead of "followed topics". i would have thought responding inside a topic would follow me, but alas
Philip Durbin (Sep 09 2024 at 21:07):@Dan Cardin for the unreads only feature you want, I'd suggest leaving a note in #feedback at https://chat.zulip.org . I couldn't find anything there, or in open issues.
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 09 2024 at 21:59):Going back to Slack feels so dated to me now. There are conversations there that span several "threads" that I have no idea how to find unless I scroll and scroll.
Daniel Buckmaster (Sep 09 2024 at 22:25):@Adam Stacoviak that was quick! :laughing:
Daniel Buckmaster (Sep 09 2024 at 22:26):Speaking of chat.zulip.org (the team seems to refer to it as CZO for short) I've asked a few questions there and got replies and suggestions from no fewer than 3 distinct core team members including the founder in less than a day. Pretty incredible :purple_heart:
Tillman Jex (Sep 10 2024 at 07:11):Jerod Santo said:
I like option 2, but I fear there will be less discussion on new episodes if they aren't posted to general...
Also +1 for option 2.
I don't think it makes sense to post podcast discussions to general at all? General should be more for announcements / introduce yourself style discussions?
If there aren't any podcast specific discussions going on in General, our attention wont be skewed and we'll need to simply head to the discussions we're interested in to begin with. This probably makes more sense anyway as everyone has their favorite series they listen to, and will likely just subscribe to those podcast-specific channels.
A potential mix of the options is to have a Master Feed channel, which has a topic for every podcast episode as they get released. But this would probably become unwieldy.
It would however unify the direction of attention to all discussions.
But again, I think separating into podcast-specific channels is more in line with the way we're already used to navigating the content from Changelog (i.e, which podcasts we're subscribed to in our podcast apps).
Exciting! I hope Zulip works for you guys. I just can't gel with Slack. Something throws me off about it. And of course, open source ftw.
Jerod Santo (Sep 10 2024 at 14:04):Daniel Buckmaster said:
I've asked a few questions there and got replies and suggestions from no fewer than 3 distinct core team members including the founder in less than a day. Pretty incredible :purple_heart:
We'd never have that kind of access to the Slack team!
Jeff Henson (Sep 11 2024 at 17:43):I'm really digging the Zulip UI. It's minimal but still looks nice. It loads way faster than Slack does (I still don't understand what it's doing that causes it to load so slow in a new tab). And I'm really liking the way topics are presented. The recent conversations view solves my #1 gripe with Slack Threads in that it's impossible to know that a thread you aren't part of has some active conversation going on.
Jeff Henson (Sep 11 2024 at 17:45):Jerod Santo said:
- In podcast-specific channels with a new topic for each episode?
Also throwing in a +1 for option #2.
Pontus Ullgren (Sep 12 2024 at 09:45):Thanks for trying Zulip, hope it sticks and you decide to switch. The "Slack-requirment" has kept me from joining the community.
Adam Stacoviak (Sep 12 2024 at 17:38):Here's the docs on keyboard shortcuts if you dig those like I do https://zulip.com/help/keyboard-shortcuts
Jarvis Yang (Sep 12 2024 at 20:37):I have Zulip bookmarked and the notifications counter is pretty cool!
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Menno (Sep 13 2024 at 10:47):I'm really enjoying Zulip. My workspace is very Slack heavy but this is much nicer.
Jerod Santo (Sep 13 2024 at 12:43):Adam and I give our first impressions of Zulip on today's (coming soon) Friends episode :fist:
Lars Ellingsen (Sep 13 2024 at 14:41):I'm still feeling my way through it but I definitely love the topics, which seems like the biggest "feature" difference
Caleb Fong (Sep 14 2024 at 00:52):I'm playing a bit of catch up in my feed, but this is all sorts of rad. It feels like the best parts of Discord, Slack, and forums.
So, YES, this is cool. :sunglasses:
Daniel Buckmaster (Sep 14 2024 at 01:44):Jerod and Adam, I wonder if you guys have been using Zulip also for any "internal" business that goes on to keep Changelog running? I'm privy to the like public community discussions, but I assume you guys need places to talk about servers, planning episodes, etc. I don't know if you're currently doing that in Slack, but I'd hope you guys don't have to split across apps to keep doing that, or suffer from worse outcomes on that side of things!
John Johnson (Sep 15 2024 at 17:19):Yes, definitely.
I have been listening to Changelog for years and haven't joined the Slack community but with this gutsy trial of the Zulip platform, you owned me! I had to come on board.
You guys practice what you preach and are meticulous at every step along the way.
Let's give it a shot! Zulip and the entire Open Source Community will thank you later.
Siddhartha Golu (Sep 17 2024 at 10:55):I'm in the same boat as John.
I run a startup based out of India and because of the dictatorial powers in my hand (!), started with Zulip from day one for our internal team communication and the experience has been wonderful. It has been running for more than a year now and apart from the initial hiccup people face because of the minimal UI, there have been virtually no complaints.
Zulip also has a massive amount of integrations built-in: https://zulip.com/integrations/ so you can have customized workflows.
I have been a Changelog listener for quite some time, but Slack requirement kept me from joining the community. I hope you guys stick with it and take the plunge to migrate :)
Jerod Santo (Sep 17 2024 at 14:30):Love to hear that, John & Siddhartha! It's not :100: yet, but we're somewhere near 99% sure we want to make the switch officially...
Matthew Sanabria (Sep 17 2024 at 15:13):After using Zulip for a few weeks now with you all I find the format of topics so much better than Slack. It's easy to come back and find/follow the conversations you want to be a part of. Especially useful for discussing specific Changelog episodes. Thank you all for giving it a go.
Nabeel S (Sep 18 2024 at 18:08):Yep! I'm really pleased with this Zulip experiment and hope this becomes permanent.
I'm also spinning up a personal Zulip instance to experiment with bots and chat-ops.
Owen Valentine (Sep 19 2024 at 13:26):Loooving the general Zulip vibe. Topics for all the things is a wonderful brain compartmentalization thing
Owen Valentine (Sep 19 2024 at 13:29):Unrelated: no mainstream 2FA yet :/ https://zulip.readthedocs.io/en/latest/development/authentication.html#two-factor-authentication
Ian Lessing (Sep 26 2024 at 16:13):yes it IS cool. glad you mentioned there is a Mac app for Zulip
John Tocher (Sep 28 2024 at 05:03):It certainly seems pretty cool. I enjoyed the interview, a lot, and like the idea. I joined the slack as I thought that's where I would find a working zulip invite,as the one in the email had expired. Before that I'd not seriously considered the slack as I've been put off by the noisiness of it in general. That's may be mostly a "me" thing as I'm not great at tuning things out and letting things drift by, but I'm keen to give this a try.
Andrei Jiroh Halili (Sep 28 2024 at 18:00):Just hopped in from Slack and the latest Friends episode transcript. Although I am mostly a lurker here and TOTP on Zulip is probably still in the works, welcome to the other side btw.
Last updated: Dec 12 2024 at 15:40 UTC